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Click to expand.Dude, a few facts are in order here.1. Yeah, the Top Boost is a treble boost option on an AC30. It is a part of the amp! It is the genuine sound of that amp! That amp does not require you to run to the store and plunk down $150 to get grit.
That amp also does not require you to run to the store and plunk down $150 for a Tremolo pedal. That, too, is built into the amp.
It is real, genuine, not artificial.2. I am a HUGE Billy Duffy/Cult (early Cult) fan, so take my word for what I am telling you. He actually lied about his Roland Jazz Chorus/Marshall valve amp set up. In recent years Duffy came clean about his original setup. No Marshall amp!
That Marshall was onstage just for looks. (Lots of guys do that. Brian May with twenty AC30s, Richie Sambora with 24 Marshalls.all just empty props.) Duffy NEVER played with a Marshall linked to his Roland Jazz Chorus. His sound really was just the howl of the huge 17' White Falcon, and the chorus and heavy reverb from his Roland Jazz Chorus.
No joke, it really was just that.If you listen carefully to those early Cult records you will be astonished to discover that though the sound is very heavy, Duffy is playing extremely clean! No Marshall at all needed because he played clean.just loud (it's the Jimmy Page trick: hard rock sound done without distortion.
JUST PLAY LOUD!). Occasionall Duffy's sound did use a bit of dirt and he would use a BOSS SD-1 pedal, but believe me, his dirt is minimal. His sound was just White Falcon into a Roland Jazz Chorus. I have that set up and I can really mimic his tone. I even use the Jazz Choru's distortion knob a bit (it is not as bad as advertised), no need for the BOSS pedal.This set up is all you need for Duffy's sound. No Boss distortion pedal needed, and no Marshall needed (he never used one!).
Click to expand.When did he stop fibbing? Just to be clear.This interview is from June 2012: “Then, using the Bradshaw switcher, I’ll just switch on and off between combinations of the amps,” he explains. “The Roland is great for the early, chimey stuff, because of that chorus sound—which I can really only get out of the combos. But I’ve always paired it with a valve amp to get more balls out of it.
Some guys get a great sound with just one amp, but I’ve never been able to do it.” On Electric-era tunes like “Fire Woman,” Duffy pairs the Matchless with the Marshalls for a straight-up rock sound without the JC-120’s solid-state shimmer. As to why his sound is so layered—both live and in the studio—Duffy’s explanation is simple: “Ian is an enormously powerful singer. When he lets rip, he’s got a set of lungs on him!” —JR. Click to expand.1. Yes, what the amp gives you is real. What the pedal gives you is, get this, pedal sound. I'd rather play an amp and a guitar than play a pedal.2.
And, no, Duffy is not a liar. He's the one at last year's winter NAMM show who said the Marshall was used as a prop. A dummy amp, just for show.Hey, it's rock and roll, you know. Props and make up and stage craft.you really think all of it is real? You really think Brian May stood before twenty cranked AC30s? Try standing in front of one. You still think May stood in front of twenty!?!
It's a show, my friend. Duffy's Marshall was part of the show.Heck, I'm glad Duffy admitted the Marshall was not part of his sound. I love his sound so much I buy his gear (and what he used ain't exactly cheap). I am glad I now do not have to save and buy a Marshall.
Click to expand.The winter NAMM show. Duffy has a new signature White Falcon on the way, so he was very personable and approachable to the Gretsch people that were in attendance. A boutique pedal maker who specializes in pedals for Gretsches was talking to Duffy and was trying to get all he could out of him regarding his sound. Duffy told him flat out, no, no Marshall was ever used. It was just a stage prop. His sound was simply White Falcon and Roland Jazz Chorus.
Once in a while he'd use the SD-1, but Marshall amp was not a part of his sound.Yes, Duffy later of course used Marshalls. That went along with his use of Les Pauls. But the early classic Cult sound, the one with the Marshall onstage next to the Roland.well, he admitted that Marshall was never a part of his sound. My God, just listen to the first records. The proof is there.
There is no Marshall tone at all. And if you don't believe your own ears, go to a Gretsch forum and ask around there.
Duffy was honest with those people. Taxer, I agree with you that just being loud, or loud enough, anyway, is a big part of getting a good tone. Ditto for pedals and solid state amplifiers. What may sound kind of artificial or tinny at lower volumes often sounds way better at higher volumes.
There is no substitute for pushing some air in a bigger space- it is hard to fool our human ears. Consequently, a lot of setups that sound great at home sound like total garbage in a band setting on stage.Tube amps help a lot. A small tube amp can sound really great at low volumes, and pedals that sound like crap through solid state amps often sound wonderful through tube amps because of the magic that happens in the total circuit created by the pedal plus the tube amp, especially a tube amp that is turned up enough so there is power tube mojo working.My Marshall JCM800 4210 is an interesting example of a hybrid. In its original form the lead channel had some kind of clipping diodes in the circuit.
Essentially in order to get 'hair rock in a box' it is my understanding that they built a distortion pedal into the lead channel's pre-amp. Just like Vox put a treble boost pedal right into the AC30 on the boost side. I had an amp tech take it out and I like it much better that way.
It sounds more like a classic Marshall and still gets plenty dirty. It basically restored the lead circuit back to the very best Marshall JCM800 iteration yet is way cheaper overall than buying one of the 'good ones'.
But this amp still sounds better when it is opened up a bit than when it has to be squeezed down with the master volume. When the MV is relatively opened up it starts to sound as good as the best Plexis I have ever played, again for a much lower price than a 'real Plexi'.To my ears, in its current form my JCM800 has about the very best rock lead tone I could ever want when I crank up its lead channel, have the master volume up as much as bearable, and plug straight into it. But Marshall is renowned for the quality of its pre-amp design for generating rock tones. And I can control it all from the guitar.However, if I plug the right pedal into the clean channel of the amp, such as a Fulltone OCD, I can dial in a tone that is also pretty awesome, to some ears maybe even better than the 'pure' Marshall side without pedals. In a blues situation where I need clean sounds and slightly dirty sounds with a Strat, sometimes I have actually found it a little easier to do that using the clean channel on my Marshall with a pedal such as an OD-3 or OCD going into it, rather than just using the dirty channel, or trying to switch back and forth between the two channels.I now always prefer single channel amps over dual channel amps, and if using a dual-channel amp I typically pick one channel and stay with it.
The solution and pedals I choose ultimately depends on the guitar, the amp, the tones needed for the gig, and how loud my stage volume needs to be in the venue. Your mileage may vary.I recently traded a guitar for another channel switching EL34 tube amp- a Carvin Steve Vai Legacy, and I think the gain channel in that sounds like garbage at any level, but that's me. Too bassy and flubby even with the tone stack optimized, maybe to counteract a very trebly signal that Vai gets out of his rig into the amp? I had an amp guy try to fix it, and if I tweak and tweak it, I can get something marginally OK, but seriously marginal.
Running something like an OCD or OD-3 through the clean channel of that amp sounds way, way better to my ears than anything I can get from the lead channel, and is much easier to dial in at various volume levels.I think they just didn't design the lead channel pre-amp very well, or at least not to my taste. I will be selling it since it doesn't do anything my Marshall or Fendery amps don't do better- I just haven't got around to it. But I bet you there is someone out there who will be perfectly happy to use it, and will probably end up just using a pedal through its clean side, which sounds great. Not quite as good as my JCM800, but pretty freaking great.I hate the straight sound of Roland JC-120s, except for clean jazz. I had to use one as a back line amp at a county festival gig in a blues situation, and a distortion pedal (SD-1, actually) set for very slight distortion totally saved the day for me.
To each his own, at the end of the day.Last of all, for all my more Fendery type amps (Fender MMB, Fender SuperChamp, Fender blackface Bandmaster, and Victoria), in general I am able to dial up a better hard rock or full-on creamy lead tone using a supplemental dirt pedal rather than trying to get it all from the amp- they just weren't really optimized for it, unlike my Marshall. The Bandmaster, especially- it just flubs out no matter how I mess with the tone stack, but loves a dirt pedal with a mid-hump.Again, Fender plus a pedal might not be quite as good as my Marshall for hard rock, but it's plenty good enough for me, and the clean and blues tones are to die for, so it's a great compromise in my book. It's a lot more practical than lugging a Fender and a Marshall to a gig and trying to implement some complicated amp switching rigamarole. Put a good dirt pedal in front of a Fender or HiWatt set to hot, fairly loud, and clean, and get 'er done.
Taxer, I agree with you that just being loud, or loud enough, anyway, is a big part of getting a good tone. Ditto for pedals and solid state amplifiers.
What may sound kind of artificial or tinny at lower volumes often sounds way better at higher volumes. There is no substitute for pushing some air in a bigger space- it is hard to fool our human ears.
Consequently, a lot of setups that sound great at home sound like total garbage in a band setting on stage.Tube amps help a lot. A small tube amp can sound really great at low volumes, and pedals that sound like crap through solid state amps often sound wonderful through tube amps because of the magic that happens in the total circuit created by the pedal plus the tube amp, especially a tube amp that is turned up enough so there is power tube mojo working.My Marshall JCM800 4210 is an interesting example of a hybrid. In its original form the lead channel had some kind of clipping diodes in the circuit.
Essentially in order to get 'hair rock in a box' it is my understanding that they built a distortion pedal into the lead channel's pre-amp. Just like Vox put a treble boost pedal right into the AC30 on the boost side. I had an amp tech take it out and I like it much better that way. It sounds more like a classic Marshall and still gets plenty dirty.
It basically restored the lead circuit back to the very best Marshall JCM800 iteration yet is way cheaper overall than buying one of the 'good ones'. But this amp still sounds better when it is opened up a bit than when it has to be squeezed down with the master volume. When the MV is relatively opened up it starts to sound as good as the best Plexis I have ever played, again for a much lower price than a 'real Plexi'.To my ears, in its current form my JCM800 has about the very best rock lead tone I could ever want when I crank up its lead channel, have the master volume up as much as bearable, and plug straight into it. But Marshall is renowned for the quality of its pre-amp design for generating rock tones.
And I can control it all from the guitar.However, if I plug the right pedal into the clean channel of the amp, such as a Fulltone OCD, I can dial in a tone that is also pretty awesome, to some ears maybe even better than the 'pure' Marshall side without pedals. In a blues situation where I need clean sounds and slightly dirty sounds with a Strat, sometimes I have actually found it a little easier to do that using the clean channel on my Marshall with a pedal such as an OD-3 or OCD going into it, rather than just using the dirty channel, or trying to switch back and forth between the two channels.I now always prefer single channel amps over dual channel amps, and if using a dual-channel amp I typically pick one channel and stay with it. The solution and pedals I choose ultimately depends on the guitar, the amp, the tones needed for the gig, and how loud my stage volume needs to be in the venue.
Your mileage may vary.I recently traded a guitar for another channel switching EL34 tube amp- a Carvin Steve Vai Legacy, and I think the gain channel in that sounds like garbage at any level, but that's me. Too bassy and flubby even with the tone stack optimized, maybe to counteract a very trebly signal that Vai gets out of his rig into the amp?
I had an amp guy try to fix it, and if I tweak and tweak it, I can get something marginally OK, but seriously marginal. Running something like an OCD or OD-3 through the clean channel of that amp sounds way, way better to my ears than anything I can get from the lead channel, and is much easier to dial in at various volume levels.I think they just didn't design the lead channel pre-amp very well, or at least not to my taste. I will be selling it since it doesn't do anything my Marshall or Fendery amps don't do better- I just haven't got around to it. But I bet you there is someone out there who will be perfectly happy to use it, and will probably end up just using a pedal through its clean side, which sounds great. Not quite as good as my JCM800, but pretty freaking great.I hate the straight sound of Roland JC-120s, except for clean jazz.
I had to use one as a back line amp at a county festival gig in a blues situation, and a distortion pedal (SD-1, actually) set for very slight distortion totally saved the day for me. To each his own, at the end of the day.Last of all, for all my more Fendery type amps (Fender MMB, Fender SuperChamp, Fender blackface Bandmaster, and Victoria), in general I am able to dial up a better hard rock or full-on creamy lead tone using a supplemental dirt pedal rather than trying to get it all from the amp- they just weren't really optimized for it, unlike my Marshall. The Bandmaster, especially- it just flubs out no matter how I mess with the tone stack, but loves a dirt pedal with a mid-hump.Again, Fender plus a pedal might not be quite as good as my Marshall for hard rock, but it's plenty good enough for me, and the clean and blues tones are to die for, so it's a great compromise in my book.
It's a lot more practical than lugging a Fender and a Marshall to a gig and trying to implement some complicated amp switching rigamarole. Put the right dirt pedal in front of a Fender or HiWatt set to hot and loud and get 'er done. Dude, a few facts are in order here.1. Yeah, the Top Boost is a treble boost option on an AC30. It is a part of the amp! It is the genuine sound of that amp! That amp does not require you to run to the store and plunk down $150 to get grit.
That amp also does not require you to run to the store and plunk down $150 for a Tremolo pedal. That, too, is built into the amp.
It is real, genuine, not artificial.2. I am a HUGE Billy Duffy/Cult (early Cult) fan, so take my word for what I am telling you. He actually lied about his Roland Jazz Chorus/Marshall valve amp set up. In recent years Duffy came clean about his original setup. No Marshall amp! That Marshall was onstage just for looks. (Lots of guys do that.
Brian May with twenty AC30s, Richie Sambora with 24 Marshalls.all just empty props.) Duffy NEVER played with a Marshall linked to his Roland Jazz Chorus. His sound really was just the howl of the huge 17' White Falcon, and the chorus and heavy reverb from his Roland Jazz Chorus.
No joke, it really was just that.If you listen carefully to those early Cult records you will be astonished to discover that though the sound is very heavy, Duffy is playing extremely clean! No Marshall at all needed because he played clean.just loud (it's the Jimmy Page trick: hard rock sound done without distortion. JUST PLAY LOUD!). Occasionall Duffy's sound did use a bit of dirt and he would use a BOSS SD-1 pedal, but believe me, his dirt is minimal. His sound was just White Falcon into a Roland Jazz Chorus. I have that set up and I can really mimic his tone.
I even use the Jazz Choru's distortion knob a bit (it is not as bad as advertised), no need for the BOSS pedal.This set up is all you need for Duffy's sound. No Boss distortion pedal needed, and no Marshall needed (he never used one!). Click to expand.Good post, chris m.Yeah, to each his own. All I am saying is that when you learn that some of the greatest tones in rock and roll were done without the aid of effects pedals (Beatles, Stones, Led Zep, Kinks, The Who, AC/DC, The Jam, The Clash, The Sex Pistols.) you realize that playing the darn stuff LOUD and rocking out is the key. Buying a pedal is just an artificial shortcut.Now I do feel certain pedals are necessary (delays, chorus, tremolo.), but for overdrive and distortion nothing, NOTHING beats hard playing and a cranked amp. Good, so you know what is real, and what is fake.Pat yourself on the back. I don't care what you think,and will continue to use overdrive pedals.You and the people who agree with you, are the only ones whocare what you think.
The rest of us will continue to use overdrive pedalsalong with:David GilmourRobben FordVince GillSteve VaiJoe SatrianiBrent MasonRobin TrowerBilly GibbonsPrinceBilly CorganJohnny MarrAndy TimmonsOz NoyScott HendersonJoe BonamassaEric JohnsonJimmy HerringI think we're in good company.